SARPG General Chat and Ideas

Cool I'll be around for its kick off then Can't believe I go to work in America in a week can't wait. Yea my character kinda get left behind what with the 4 pages or so a day Blue Skies seemed to generate we didn't even need action to kick it off was just mad.

hey, I have an idea for an RPG, which i tried to get going on another forum, which wasn't devoted solely to RPGs. I really like it, so I'd like to do it on here. It's a fantasy sort of thing, with rune-based magic, elves, fairies, and people called Runemystics. In fact, the RPG is called Runemystic. If it sounds interesting, I'll explain.

sounds interesting. please expand. after you finish im going to unveil my plan for an amazing rpg. which will either be amazing, or bust before it starts.

well don't keep us in suspense, I'd like to see.

okay, well, here goes, and be warned, i suck at summarizing.


Basically, there is this nation called Cahmerra. It's ruled by thirteen lords, and fifteen years ago, there was a war with Rhek, one of their northern neighbors. They had enlisted the help of their mages and wizards, but they needed more help, so they enlisted Runemystics, people who had the runes of magic burned into their skin by an ancient ritual. Unfortunately, the Runemystics betrayed them and the Cahmerrans had no choice but to kill them all, with the help of Silvarni, their eastern neighbor. Now, fifteen years later, there have been reports of new Runemystics, and now people are freaking out, and the thirteen lords have issued an order for another massacre.

There aren't just Runemystics as magic users, though, there are mages, wizards, elves, fairies, and thats about it. And rune-based magic has very rigid rules, and its the only magic, so there's no "i can call up fire just by thinking about it" you have to write the rune and say the name.

sounds awesome. are we hunters or the hunted? and are you using any specific set of runes? because I happen to have a full list of the traditional runes sitting in front of me. almost all of which have a corresponding tree, deity, element, and meaning. (I.e. the rune Hagal represents the ash/yew tree, Ice, the deity Urd, and means ice or hail; transformation.)

cool. glad you like it. you can be either hunter or hunted. and i don't have any real set of runes in mind, but your list sounds pretty cool where can i get one? the different magic users have different ways of using the magic and the type of magic they use. Its kinda complicated. I'll explain it later, probably.

theres a basic list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rune. but my list is in the book "The Element Encyclopedia of Secret Signs and Symbols" by Adele Nozedar. great reference for things like this.

Anyways, any one want to hear my idea?

sure, since you listened so nicely to my idea, i'll hear yours.

Quite simply my idea is a spin-off of type-moon's fate/stay night (which it seems only myself and CDRW are familiar with)

For those of you unacquainted with the idea, it would be a fight for the holy grail, called the holy grail war, in which seven magi fight against each other in a battle royal. the winner receives the holy grail, which has the power to grant one wish. the interesting part though is the Servants. Each of the Masters, the magi selected by the grail to compete, is granted the help of a familiar called a Servant. These Servants are summoned using the power of the holy grail and are heroes from the past, for example, king arthur, gilgamesh, hercules, and alexander the great. Together a Master and Servant fight to kill all of the other Servants (killing the masters isnt necessary, but servants cant stay in this world without their master). Only after one servantt remains will the holy grail appear.

Well?

Also, this explanation from wiki may be easier to understand:

Fuyuki City is the setting for a secret and violent war among competing magi. For the past two centuries, seven sorcerers have gathered and engage in a Battle Royale, each gambling his or her own life to obtain the Holy Grail, a legendary chalice capable of granting wishes. The past four Holy Grail Wars have typically occurred every sixty years.

Each of the sorcerers, better known as Masters, is aided by one of the seven summoned spiritual familiars known as Servants, who are the reincarnations of legendary souls from all across time. These resurrected Heroic Spirits, possess superhuman characteristics and wield powerful artifacts or abilities called Noble Phantasms. A Noble Phantasm's hidden abilities may be released by invoking its true name, but casual brandishing of a Noble Phantasm is best avoided, for symbolic Noble Phantasms usually belie a Servant's identity, diminishing that Servant's competitive advantage. Specific legends may be summoned with the aid of catalysts, which are artifacts, ideas, or experiences similar or of value to the desired Servant. Only one Servant can be summoned in each war from one of seven classes: Saber, Archer, Lancer, Berserker, Rider, Assassin, and Caster.

As only astral entities (i.e. Servants) are physically capable of retrieving the Holy Grail, Master and Servant are forced to cooperate. Masters control Servants with three Command Spells, which are crystallized miracles issued by the Holy Grail that manifest on a Master's body. When activated, Command Spell permit a Servant to accomplish an incredible feat, or alternatively provide Masters with the authority to issue an irrevocable and absolute order to a Servant. When all three Command Spells are used up, Servants are no longer obliged to serve their Masters, and as such, may freely choose to turn upon their ex-partner. In the event of a Master's demise, a Servant may choose to bind him or herself to another Master; if a Servant is slain, a Master may ally with a wayward Servant or pursue sanctuary with the Holy Grail War's impartial supervisor, who is traditionally a delegate of the Roman Catholic Church.

The Holy Grail materializes fully only when there is one Servant left standing; therefore, it is not necessary to vanquish Masters in order to win the war. However, as many Servants possess powerful Noble Phantasms and are grueling to defeat, many participants have chosen instead to eradicate Masters, who are responsible for maintaining a Servant's presence through the supplication of Mana.

sounds pretty darn awesome. i love these types of things.

the only problem would be getting the right amount of people and the fact that it generally a battle royal. And that all but two have to die to finish it. of course, I have a plan for that.

The problem with doing this according to the book (or rather the anime) is that you essentialy have seven players that can not work together, as they are supposed to murder each other.

SPOILER:

Spoiler:

So you can essentialy only have seven players (a rather small number), unless you are making the Servants players (in which case you need 14, a rather high number). The main problem, however, is the player vs player; this requires a lot of discussion, as people tend to be protective of their characters, and will be hesitant to let nother player butcher them.

And it will have to be a prologue, or an alt. universe, as

Spoiler:

I would do the alternate universe thing. same idea, just replace all the characters. And theres already a prologue. the light novel Fate/Zero.

(Rin worked with Shiro because she liked him. And it was a good strategy. Alone they couldnt beat Hercules, but together they could.)

to even out the numbers what we could do is have some groups be single players and some be two players.

and my idea for the killing each other part is this. If me, the GM, and or maybe someone else are really mean and powerful, we can get the others to work together. and when the time comes to win the grail I'll unleash my secret Angra Manyu plan. (Even though i told you no one else has read it so no one understands what im talking about). Also, most heroic spirits are, well, heroic. So they work together against bad guys by nature. (Note: Bad people generally have evil heroes. I.e. a criminal might summon a servant like the Black Night, Medusa, Bluebeard or Hassan-i Sabbāh.)

Spoiler:

thats basically what happens in the other story routes. (the anime only covers 1 of 3 routes) the people who are nice work together to beat the mean people. then work together against the Angra Manyu part.

Well the whole Faith/ storyline, with it's multiple alt. universes is epic to say the least.

Spoiler:

And even good or evil Servants attack each other; Lancer fights Saber (Cuchulainn fighting Arthur, Good VS Good) and Caster fights Rider (Medea VS Medusa, Evil VS Evil). And honoustly, the Shiro x Rin thing was cheap... especialy considering the fact she tried to kill him so many times, making nice with him only minutes later. One of the lesser moments in the series imho. I could have bought it if her motives had been Archer's incomplete summoning, but in the Hecules fight he proves she could have easily butchered nearly all Masters and Servants (Infinite Blade Works = rape, not to mention the 'copy Noble Phantasms skill and the Overload it').

But thats my beef with the series . I would point out that by creating a combat system this way, people will be reluctant to play a 'bad guy', and there is the danger of a world full of Aangs (sorry, sister's been watching Avatar, and the "I believe Aang can save the world"-quote is now forever imprinted in my mind).

That said, I do like the plan. Fate/ provides a good background, and although I am not a fan of tvshow/manga (or in this case, graphic novel/pc games/anime/what not) turned into a RPG, I would probably join (RPG addict, after all). The reason I loved the show (well, loved?) was not because it was so well written, but all the pointers at mythological figures, mainly the Irish (lancer, alas, his part was to small) and arthurian legend (I am always a sucker for the latter).

And a 'Lady of the Lake' based Caster, or perhaps a 'Mortred' based assassin would kick some royal ass...

CommonGoods wrote:

And a 'Lady of the Lake' based Caster, or perhaps a 'Mortred' based assassin would kick some royal ass...

lol. Great minds think alike. I've never seen any of the anime you guys are talking about, but the moment Honorius explained how the Master/Servant thing works, Morgan le Fey was the first person to come to mind. I seem to have a thing for wicked witches.

Anywho, if you ever do this thing, count me in. For the whole 'who lives and who dies' dilemma, I suggest a vote or just have the GM call all the shots. No whining if you get offed in round one.

Ah poor Morgan, to have been turned into such a villain... To think she was just a magician at the start. I blame Lancelot for turning her into the wiched witch of the west (West of Europe = Britain. To much of a stretch?)

The dilemma here isn't as much 'who dies who lives', but rather that the death of actual active characters is... rare. Players killing players is nearly unheard of (I know of 1 such occasion, in Exodus). I do not suggest the voting idea, as I for one will never vote on killing a character while the player doesn't want the character killed. As for giving the power to the GM; it's a way to make a lot of enemies...

A 'no whining' rule is a bit of a stretch, as although the GM runs the game, the characters still belong to the players. 'Offing' them should be discussed. If you want to run a game in which the GM controls every characters every move, write a book. Your characters, your call. Again, just my 4 and 16/74th cents.

Only one character will actually make it to the end, so it's rather absurd to get angry about having your character killed. If a player knows s/he is going to take his/her character's death personally, s/he shouldn't join the game. That's what I meant by 'no whining'.

When you join this type of game you are essentially gambling with your character's life. I'm not advocating that the GM writes the actual death scene or takes total control of the situation. I just don't think it's fair to join someone's game -- a game that you know works on a battle royale system -- and say "no, I don't want to die now." The player should have some say in the matter, but at the end of the day it's the GM's call to make.

Spoiler:

The novel explains the whole rin hating yet loving shirou thing better (especially so in the rin route), and she never knew Archer's capabilities, and in some of the other routes its only because Rin likes Shirou that Archer (realizing that the idea is stupid as you have said) tries to kill Shirou. Plus, in the other routes Cuchulain helps Shirou multiple times. And bad guys always kill each other, unless they are both thwarted by the same good guy.

Not quite understanding the Aang thing, but id be happy to play a villain (maybe a good guy too on the side) and im sure at least one other person would.

The reason I truly loved the series was Archer (he's my favorite, the reason i played the game was simply to see the Unlimited Blade Works route). But the novel itself completely blew my mind. It was a better written novel than many actual books that i've read. (along with longer, 96+ hours for all three routes!!)

I havent a clue who Mortred is but I have plenty of suggestions for heroes (Also the lady of the lake was a fairy).

Spoiler:

Also, for you others, did i mention that you get tons of creative licensing with these heroes?

Btw, how did you know Rider was medusa? it was never shown in the anime. and Archer's summon wasnt incomplete. it only seemed that way because Rin didnt understand the reason why he was summoned. (has to do with alternate time lines and all that stuff, its complicated)

For player killing (except in the case of assassin, since he, well, doesnt make for a fair fight) my policy would be something like this: if two players fight, and one is clearly going to die (i.e. robin hood vs hercules. honestly, robin hood is dead meat.) that person either needs to run, or try to, or fight and die valiantly. If the match is close, I guess its GM's discretion. Preferably though the players would work together against me (and maybe the AGM) the entire time (I'm positive that i can make a strong enough bad guy for that.) and after my character dies theres still the case of my secret Angra Manyu plan for the very end to prevent everyone from having to die. Of course, theres no reason why, say, P1's servant dies and the master P2 dies, P1 can't make a contract with P2's servant. or servant P1 cant find a new master to make a contract with if his master dies.

I've been in a few games, actually, that involve player death on a regular basis, and I can tell you from experience that it can be both very aggravating, and very fun (because of the bit of suspence involved). In all those cases, though, player death was GM-induced, and usualy came from NPCs. If player death is going to be an issue in-game, then yes, it should be mentioned. This way, you can expect that your character will die and prepare mentally for that scenario.

The best way to handle player death is to knock off the inactive players first. Of course, this usually happens at the hands of an NPC/GM character.

In terms of PvP, yes, GM should also adjudicate who wins and loses. BUT, this does not necessarily mean that players need to get 'offed at the start'. There can be some encounters that don't necessarily result in death. Good trick would to let each character in on a bit of action before killing them off.

Basically, if the GM can map the decisions of who dies and work that into the storyline, and the players are prepared to part with their characters at the game's beginning, it can work.

Since we're having fun with these...

Spoiler:

Blergh, I'm slow... trying to get some lvls in Star OCean, while posting;

@ Anony;
Well I guess it is a matter of opinion then. I do not believe it is the GM's role to kill of characters left and right. Rather, he creates an environment, in which players, who create characters, operate and live. In killing of a character, he is essentialy taking control of that character. Personally, I think that is bad GMing. No one knows the character like the player, and as such, the player should have a hand in the character's death.

If the GM manages to create a scene, preferably without to much Deux Ex Machina, in which the next logical step is that the character dies, I agree. But such a scene can not be created without the input of a player, not in the way it should be written. I agree that in a battle royal, people die, but at the same time I believe such deaths should be discussed with, and written with, the player. Be it the Discussion Forum, be it in PM's. Character deaths, since there are only 7 Masters and 7 Servants, should be epic. Be it the manner of the death, be it the post itself.

Deaths have to make sense. They too often don't in real life.

@ Honor;
Rider being Medusa made sense, even more so after seeing her abilities. They were so stuffed full with Perseus references that I pretty much knew after seeing here (Greek reference + blindfold).

Mortred is the one who kills Arthur (well... in most legends, anyway). And The Lady of the Lake is so much more then a mere fairy... A fae (not a fairy, damned!), a nymph, a magician, a former student of Merlin, a god, a fifteen year old huntress, an element herself. Take a pick.

The GM deciding who has the better Servant feels... icky. Again, I would prefer some player interaction on it. Robin Hood, as an Archer, could stand little chance against HErcules, being a berserker? Archer did manage to kill Hercules, despite the class difference (not once, but 6 (?) times).

I guess i Sabbah as assassin would make since, she he founded the organisation, heck, created the word. A final note, I never said Archer was incomplete I said that Rin's motives for sticking around Shiro would have been more understandable if they hd been based on her need to stick around a strong Servant (since she does believe Archer is incomplete).

Mordred not Mortred. And i guess you're right about the super powered GM. also, hercules has the ability to be archer, lancer, and saber in addition to berserker. also, class doesnt determine power, we see this in the fact that both gilgamesh and archer are archer class. also, despite rider being dipicted as weak sometimes the rider from fate zero is alexander the great, who is super strong.

and teele, I think youve got a pretty good solution on player death

Honorius wrote:

Mordred not Mortred. And i guess you're right about the super powered GM. also, hercules has the ability to be archer, lancer, and saber in addition to berserker. also, class doesnt determine power, we see this in the fact that both gilgamesh and archer are archer class. also, despite rider being dipicted as weak sometimes the rider from fate zero is alexander the great, who is super strong.

and teele, I think youve got a pretty good solution on player death

Mordred OR Mortred OR Modred OR Medraut OR Medrod OR... you get the picture. Arthurian legends aren't to picky with names. The Lady of the Lake has about a score of different names, depending on the story, timeframe, role, and heck, even translation.

And I don't think rider was weak, per se. Not much of a brawler, perhaps, but she made up for it in abilities. The ability she uses to get away from Shiro in the school (can't be bothered to look up the name) is pretty potent. The poor blind folded girl is just mana deprived.

Alexander the Great as Rider... I'll take your word for it. Makes sense, in a way. The real give away that Fate/Stay Night's Rider = Medusa was the pegasus. Would be hilarious to have a Odysseus as Rider though (riding a wooden horse for the hilarity factor?)

Odysseus? I know he helped with the Trojan horse stuff but his claim to fame was the trip home. It would be awesome though. (although since a greek's main weapon is his spear most greeks would be lancers).

btw, in sakura's route rider becomes super strong. its just that Shinji is a weak master.

CommonGoods wrote:

Well I guess it is a matter of opinion then. I do not believe it is the GM's role to kill of characters left and right. Rather, he creates an environment, in which players, who create characters, operate and live. In killing of a character, he is essentialy taking control of that character. Personally, I think that is bad GMing. No one knows the character like the player, and as such, the player should have a hand in the character's death.

...and die. Realistically, I don't think most players would willingly kill off their characters without some incentive from the GM. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation, but it seems there are no NPCs to fight or sidequests to be taken in this game -- the one and only conflict is among players. So, if the players aren't actually killing one another they're not getting a single step closer to the grail -- in other words, the plot isn't advancing. (Correct me if any of this is wrong. Is there some way for us all to live and still get the grail? Is there some way the game can remain interesting without fighting amongst players?)

It's the players' role to advance the plot, but if players aren't dying, the GM will have to take matters into his/her hands, otherwise the game will stagnate into a collection of meaningless battles. Having some battles that end in a draw or in a character's retreat are fine by me, but at some point someone has to actually die, otherwise what's the point?

Handpicking who lives and who dies should be a last resort. IMO, the GM should at least be allowed to say "hey, it's time someone was eliminated. Decide amongst yourselves who that's going to be." Then, if no one steps up to the plate, it's time to start calling names. It's only necessary if we, the players, make it necessary. Bad players make bad GMs; this requires cooperation on all fronts.

Again, I'm not advocating that the GM write the death scene, nor would s/he be exhibiting a god-like control over anyone's character. Hopefully, a player will recognize when it is his/her time to go wihout requiring a single word from the GM, but we all know that's probably not going to happen. This could all be avoided if players died of their own accord, but I simply don't see that happening. 99.9% of us are going to try to live far past what would be appropriate for the situation. That's when GM intervention will become necessary.

Is it easy to kill a character you poured your heart and soul into? No, but the purpose of RPing is to make us better writers. When the GM sends hordes of rampaging zombies, we learn to write better fight scenes. When the GM sends us walking down a narrow mountain pass with a bottomless pit on either side, we learn to write suspense. When the GM sends a lovely lady our way, we learn to write romance. And when the GM puts us face to face with odds we simply can't beat, we learn to write the best damn death we can.

CommonGoods wrote:

...such a scene can not be created without the input of a player, not in the way it should be written. I agree that in a battle royal, people die, but at the same time I believe such deaths should be discussed with, and written with, the player. Be it the Discussion Forum, be it in PM's. Character deaths, since there are only 7 Masters and 7 Servants, should be epic. Be it the manner of the death, be it the post itself.

Agreed. On that note, I'm done.